With Harold’s permission I omitted part of his comment on the post https://tendingmygarden.com/what-are-you-doing-with-finished-plants/.
Here’s the part I omitted:
Been reading about JADAM liquid fertilizers, the theory being that a spent plant will contain all the nutrients that plant needs to grow, so chopping up the plant into a bucket and steeping it in rain water will make a good liquid fertilizer for that plant next year. In other words make tomato fertilizer from spent tomato plants, etc.
My take on this, and a new “experiment” will be to chop up this years plants and, rather than drop them where they grew, drop them where I intend to grow them next year. I already make comfrey liquid feed, and so chopping, moving and dropping will be as close to JADAM methods as I get….
The comment brings up two points that I feel important enough to address in a stand-alone post.
Nothing New Under the Sun
Over the years I’ve noticed that at some point an individual somewhere in the world will discover how nature works. And if they have the resources to do so they may promote it widely – especially in their own country.
Nothing is “new” in these methods. The various “founders” -are most likely farmers that learned from nature as I did. And then told others about it as I have.
The basis for almost all these methods starts with soil preparation (by hand or cover crops), covering the soil, and adding organic materials. You’ll recognize those as what I term my 3 keys to successful gardening.
Various mixtures to use as fertilizers are now included in some of these methods. I wonder if many of those are inspired by those detailed in a book I consider one of the most important I’ve read. It’s entitled Secrets of the Soil by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird.
It’s not the easiest book to read but Secrets of the Soil will open new courses of action that you didn’t think possible. I wrote about it here.
Do Spent Plants have all the nutrients needed for the next crop?
Harold mentioned that he has been reading about this method’s liquid fertilizers. Evidently they recommend using spent (finished plants) to chop and place in a bucket with rain water to fertilize the next crop of the same kind.
The theory supposes that a spent plant contains all the nutrients that a new plant of the same kind needs to grow. But does it?
Two things to be considered
#1 Almost any source one reads will advise cutting cover crops just before they seed since most sources indicate that is when plants have the most nutrient value to be added back to the soil.
In my mind – this would contradict “spent plants having all the nutrients needed for the new plants (of the same kind).”
Harold intends to adjust their method slightly and cut and drop his spent plants in the tomato bed planned for next year. That will work even if the plants don’t contain as many nutrients as plants that have not yet set seed (via their fruit).
#2 Consider Diversity as well.
Diversity is just as important as the basic 3 keys. If other plants are cut and dropped on that bed intended for next year’s tomato crop, they will add different things to the soil.
Thus, adding a variety of plants on the bed would greatly benefit next year’s crop.
Here’s a good post to read about diversity.
Final Thoughts
If you go to the search box at the top of the home page and type in diversity you’ll have numerous other posts that mention diversity from which you can select.
The more we know about how best to recycle our plants our gardens will continue to improve.
Thanks to Harold for allowing me to hold back part of his comment on the other post, until I could get this post up.
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We take all of our organic compost from the house and garden and put it in a large barrel. We cut small holes in the bottom of the barrel and capture the water that seeps thru the compost and add it to our plant water. The water turns black and dark brown when mixed with the compost water. So far it has worked pretty well with most plants as we avoid any chemical fertilizers. We also direct water our plants with pond water, captured rain water, and water captured from our home air conditioner. Your thoughts?
Good input Bert. Another excellent way to do things.
Just keep in mind that nothing replaces organic residues in adding energy to your soil.
Other than watering in seedlings with a watering can when soil is dry, I don’t water at all.
My soil was prepared 20 + years ago as I recommend on this website. And I use all 3 keys as recommended. Thus, it holds all the water I need even in drought years.
I can’t think of but one exception — and that was in a drought year I hauled a bucket of rain water to a cucumber plant. : – )
Theresa
Interesting to consider that you get by without watering. Your soil must truly be a special blend to achieve that. I am going to rethink things and find ways to get more organic residue in my soil. We have a large garden as we feed quite a few people and give the rest away.
I did experiment with a raised bed this year and had great results with eggplant and hot peppers, not so much with sweet peppers. We had cucumbers in a raised bed with a trellis that did quite well too.
It was very wet here in early to mid Spring, so things grew at different rate than they normally do. The tomatoes did well at the end and caught up quite well, my Wife canned over 160 pints of tomatoes. Each year is different and a new learning experience.
If soil life is really what feeds plants, it may not matter so much what specific mixture of organic residue is landing on top of the beds. Just that some layer of organic matter is added, may be the critical piece.
From what I have gleaned by watching Dr. Elaine Ingham, there are almost no soils that lack the necessary minerals/chemistry to grow crops. Only soils that have been depleted of life. Once the elements that support diverse soil life are restored, virtually all crops can be grown anywhere the climate supports them.
In a soil teeming with life and in balance, the plants draw life to their roots by their exudates, and in turn the plants also “tell” the biology what compounds they need from the soil in every instance. So in addition to whatever is being released from the organic layer up top, biological life goes to work on the mineral substrate of the soil to free the other molecules needed by the plants.
Elegant system.
Hiya Theresa!!
WoW, my name up in lights! I followed the link to 3 Books That Can Change Your Garden and saw “Liebig, a German chemist, known as the father of chemical agriculture,”. The name says it all, Lie big….
And after all these years here we are trying to overcome all the entrenched “wisdom” of modern agriculture. Thank God for you and people like you who show that you don’t need all that poisonous garbage to grow food. You’ve been teaching me that everything I need to feed my soil and by extension myself is right here in my own yard. The only money I spend on gardening these days is on seeds, and a new tool if needed. With saving seeds even that cost is going down. Free food…. What a concept!!
Take care and God bless,
Harold
Thank you Theresa for another very interesting post – and for making me stop and reflect on diversity in my garden… !
Thinking about this. When a tomato plant is “spent” it dies. It has lost nutrients through the tomatoes that were harvested, so it will not contain the amount of nutrients it did when at its peak. Need to be careful because it also contains whatever pathogens were on it when it died as well as the eggs or pupae of any pests. If not hot composted, they may still be there and if you are growing tomatoes where you are dumping the dead tomato plant, you are asking for trouble. I put dead plants on the compost pile and add chicken waste which makes the pile heat up very well.
To all readers: I’m still in the process of responding to the comments from Frank, Bert (2nd comment), Harold and Giulia.
I wanted to put Abigail’s comment up right away, with my reply following it – especially since our opinions differ.
So I hope you’ll check back for replies to the others.
Reply to Abigail:
Sure was nice to hear from you Abigail. It’s been a while.
As covered in this post — I am also of the opinion that finished tomato plants have few if any nutrients left after they’ve produced their crop.
Regarding your opinion on pathogens on tomato plants — as I’ve told in numerous posts, I use to follow that line of thought — and if it were some dread disease — I might consider it now.
And I covered that here: https://tendingmygarden.com/leave-plant-residue-in-the-garden-if-diseased/ as well as a number of other posts throughout TMG.
Regarding a hot compost pile — I stopped all that over 30 years ago. I cut and drop all spent tomato plants and have for years. And my garden is very healthy.
As I’m sure you are aware of from reading TMG for many years, I would not even begin to tell someone else what they should or shouldn’t do.
However, I don’t hesitate to give them the benefit of my experiences over 43 years of gardening successfully. I realize too that your opinion falls in line with conventional advice given by most sources. And that’s fine.
Hearing different experiences gives my critical-thinking-readers the option to decide for themselves how they’d like to proceed.
Theresa
Hiya Theresa!!
Looking at the discussion in comments and your posting about chopping and dropping diseased plants I had a thought…..
Given that soil is basically a living organism and given that all life on earth is interconnected, it doesn’t seem too much of a stretch to think that living soil will react in much the same way as a healthy immune system.
If I’m exposed to a germ, virus or pathogen my immune system will work to fight it off. Yes, I may feel bad or even get really sick, but in the long run my immune system has now learned and will remember how to deal with whatever it was that made me sick and prevent it from happening again or at least moderate it to be a much milder reaction in future.
Does living soil work in a similar manner?? It just might and given your experiences I tend to believe it does.
Excellent comparison Harold. And I agree — based on my experiences — that just might be the case! And there is a long held belief that has the same sentiments.
Thanks for taking time to share your thoughts.
Theresa
Hey Bert,
The things that gave me soil you call “a special blend” were the 3 keys. .
While nature was teaching me for the past 40 plus years, a man on the west coast named John Jeavons was learning what I was learning but also making detailed records as he learned.
I wrote about him here 3 Keys. to Successful Gardening. More Proof They Work
I think you’ll find the information he’s recorded amazing and encouraging. For example he found that by following nature (starting with what I call my 3 keys)
we can easily reduce the water needed to grow a pound of food to about 3% of what is normally required!
He also found for “the best yields in the world” one needs only 20 inches of rain per year and the goal of holding one-half in the soil for crops to use. That feat is acquired by proper soil preparation, adding orgnic material, and covering the soil. (I call them the 3 keys.)
Here’s another post that I wrote during a severe drought Bert. https://tendingmygarden.com/how-is-your-garden-in-this-drought/
My guess is your raised beds are containers? If I’m correct I would be interested in knowing what you filled them with.
Another post you may want to review (just for your information) is https://tendingmygarden.com/contained-raised-beds-no-way/.
Glad you’re thinking about adding more organic residue to your soil. That is important in helping the soil to hold water.
There are so many ways to do that. Straw, pine needles, numerous cover crops, plant residue, dried grass or hay cuttings (before they seed), rotting wood, and/or aged wood chips and even your kitchen scraps. (Although I know you use those for your compost now.)
As you said each year is different and a new learning experience!
Hope you’ll keep me posted Bert.
Frank,
I agree that as you mentioned, that in this case, organic matter being added to the garden’s beds is the critical part to success.
And as Dr. Ingham learned with her various instruments about bringing depleted soil back to life, I learned from working with depleted soil.
Part of the land where we had our first garden had been totally depleted by conventional practices including being compressed with heavy duty equipment.
Bill and I started with a section of that clay soil that had been abused. We double dug beds, added organic materials and mulched. By year two and three we had a fantastic garden.
Nature indeed – as you stated – has an elegant system.
Harold,
I wonder how many readers read the name of the German chemist (Liebig) and did not realize what you picked up immediately.
That was great! I must admit that years ago — I didn’t realize what you did right away. I won’t give it away here — but I’ll bet now every reader will be aware of exactly what you picked up.
Also I loved how you put it when you said about Liebig’s big error: “—after all these years here we are trying to overcome all the entrenched “wisdom” of modern agriculture.” Shows the power of the MSM and their ability to brainwash the public.
For those who’ve not read the post Harold read, here’s the link: https://tendingmygarden.com/3-books-that-can-change-your-garden-your-health-and-the-way-you-look-at-life/
Guilia, thank you for taking the time to comment on most posts. And letting me know via personal emails that TMG has helped
you in your garden!
Comments on the last few posts have been even more thought provoking than usual. I loved it!! Everyone added so much to the post!
Theresa
Great comments and sharing here. Every year I learn new things about gardening. It is a journey and a complicated learning experience. When we stop learning or trying new things, it is easy to get stuck in a rut. Always sad to see the end of the gardening season come but that is the ebb and flow of it all. Blessings to all and more learning next season.
I wouldn’t say it’s “necessary” as demonstrated by plenty of folks’ success without it, but reading the comments here reminded me of a few things one can do to jump start their soil life if needed (maybe particularly in a new location?), especially if you have some money to spend on setup.
First, you can buy microbe mixes containing lots of beneficial friends; I have used some by OGBiowar and Orca. Second, you can use this products directly, but they’re even more effective if you brew them in a compost tea for a day or two first, and you can also do the compost tea without them (cheaper but less effective since you rely on whichever microbes are in the material already).
I used this combo at my parents’ newish house a few years back when I stayed there between careers and gave them both the best yields their garden had seen since they moved in, and lasting benefits. The compost tea I brewed contained, in addition to the microbe mixes mentioned: worm castings, kelp meal, yucca (mainly to help it spread and stick when sprayed), alfalfa meal, bone meal, and a few other things. (The exact recipe came from a friend who uses it for intensive semi-hydroponic cropping) And of course, used in conjunction with mulching everything in well.
Some of the microbes in these packs are also chosen specifically to combat pests, whether fungus that consume aphids or fight powdery mildew or whatever.
Again, not necessary because life will respond to good conditions anyway, but could be useful for those getting started, especially if they have money more than time due to work obligations or what have you.
Beautifully said Bert! And I agree – there is always so much to learn, And that sure keeps things interesting. I hope to provide lots of good information for TMG readers all through the winter.
: – )
Sure glad you commented on this post. You got the exchange of ideas off to a great start and made it so much more fun. Thanks!
Anna, I appreciated your taking time to share this information. I thought of one reader in particular that I wrote about in this post: https://tendingmygarden.com/revisiting-residual-herbicides/. who may be interested if funds are available. I sent her an email telling her about your comment so she wouldn’t miss it.
Many thanks Anna.
Theresa
Just a quick comment to say how much I appreciate reading these conversations.
I think many individuals here have minds that would appreciate watching
“The Science of Gardening”
It is a Great Courses lecture series presentation. This one is with Dr. Linda Chalker-Scott of Washington State University.
https://www.gardenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/great-courses-linda3.jpg
I like it because she tells about the research studies/ data behind a lot of the practices we are familiar with that seem to work and then not work in our own gardens. It’s very cool because I would never go to these primary sources and read all these studies myself, but she has! And she gives an overview of what they all (meta-analysis) seem to show would be “best practice”. I appreciate the countless hours she has devoted to studying the studies.
Checked it out from local library, popped popcorn and put my feet up… cant recommend enough.
Best wishes to everyone.
Thanks for sharing Rachelle.
Theresa